killed." there's a lot of raw emotion. we can't get out of the facts of the investigation and see where it all goes. the eight you have to feel for the family there ed, great to be with you this morning. the story will continue right here on the fox news channel. thanks for joining us, everyone. "outnumbered" starts now. >> harris: we begin with this fox news alert. authorities and atlanta say charges could come within 48 hours for the officer involved in the shooting death of an unarmed black man friday night. that incident sparking new demonstrations, including at the wendy's restaurant where it all happened, which was set on fire saturday night. police were trying to arrest 27-year-old 11 for dui on friday when a struggle ensued. he grabbed an officer's taser, and that led to a foot chase. an officer then shot brooks twice in the back. that officer has been fired. the other police officer involved, reassigned after atlantis police chief stepped down.

the district attorney says the incident began without problems. watch. >> i thought that it was cordial. he was very cooperative. he answered the questions that the officers asked. he did not seem to present any kind of threat to anyone, so the fact that it would escalate to his death just seems unreasonable. >> harris: jonathan serrie his life for us in atlanta with more. jonathan, of course we just heard from the family of rayshard brooks. >> yeah, we did. some very emotional statements from family members of rayshard brooks, who lost his life in the parking lot of this fast food restaurant behind me. one of the most emotional statements came from one of his cousins. let's listen to her right now. >> again, if we stand together,

united as one, there will be no more cases similar to rayshard's. how many more protests will it take? to ensure that the next victim isn't your cousin, your brother, your uncle, your nephew, your friend, or your companion? >> family members say they do appreciate the protests, but they are urging protesters to keep it peaceful, because peaceful is what they want as the memory of rayshard brooks. that's exactly what they got this morning. the naacp organized a march through the streets of downtown atlanta to the georgia state house, participants calling for equal justice. like so many daytime rallies, it remained peaceful. over the weekend, the protests were more intense. saturday night, large numbers of protesters blocked a 14-lane

section of interstate 75 and 85, known as the downtown connector, and there were so many protesters on surface streets that firefighters were unable to reach the wendy's where the student had taken place before the restaurant was complete and fully engulfed in a farce of a arsonist. dashcam video shows rayshard brooks breaking free from a scuffle with officers and holding what appeared to be one of the officer's taser's before he was fatally shot. atlanta's mayor says what started as a routine police call to handle an intoxicated motorist blocking a restaurant drive-through lane should not have escalated as far as it did. take a listen. >> this was not confrontational. this was a guy that you were rooting for. no income in the end, watching, just let them go. let them call somebody to pick him up. >> harris, as you can see behind

me, people are gathering around the wendy's once again as they have every day since this friday night shooting. the restaurant completely gutted in that fire. crime stoppers offering a $10,000 reward for information leading to the indictment and arrest of the arsonist or arsonists who were involved in that. as you can see here, right now what you see taking place, very peaceful and a lot of emotion on this day. back to you, harris. >> harris: jonathan serrie, thank you very much for getting us started here with the facts. you're watching "outnumbered." i'm harris faulkner. here today, melissa francis. joining us for the very first time on "outnumbered," senior editor of "the federalist" and fox news contributor, mollie hemingway. mollie, welcome. executive of serve america pac and fox news contributor, marie harf is here. joining us today, anchor of "fox news sunday," chris wallace. great to see you, melissa, as

well paredes also the author, i should say of chris, of the brand-new book, "count on 1945: the extraordinary story of the atomic bomb and 116 days that change the world." we have some days changing our world right now, chris wallace. what has gone down in atlanta, of course, we will let the investigators figure out exactly which way things are going to go. i just want to get your topline thoughts on how similarly people acted right after this incident. are things changing? he saw the d.a. way in. he saw the d.a. leave. the officer right away fired. the officer on leave, suspended. things moving much quicker than they had prior to george floyd. >> chris: yeah, that is taking a look at the one good thing, that their reaction was quicker. and perhaps that resulted in less violence in the streets of atlanta, although you did have the burning of that one wendy's.

then the violence that we saw in minneapolis. i've got to say, though, what strikes me is how little things changed. the case clearly was more clear cut with george floyd in minneapolis, where he had been completely subdued and that officer continued to press down on his neck until he squeezed the very life out of him. this is a more complicated case. but the fact is that george floyd is dead, rayshard brooks is dead. in that sense, things haven't changed. >> harris: it's very true. you talk about the different natures of what we saw play out on videotape. i want to take a look at the customs and border patrol protections commissioner, mark morgan, and what he had to say about all this, speaking to the very issue that different people see it differently. let's watch. >> mr. brooks didn't just resist a lawful arrest, he did so violently. he fought with the police again and again. he took their weapon, one of

their weapons, and tried to use it against him. that is a complete different set of circumstances. >> harris: mollie, the atlanta mayor, keisha lance bottoms, said she did not believe brooks' death was a justified use of deadly force. we have been reporting that there are questions about what this investigation will entail in terms of the training, so on and so forth. we'll let them do that. but what does this do to a nation already divided at this point? >> i do think is important, first off, any time a man is killed by police it's a horrible thing. that we could see this happening and what not. it is understandable that people have -- that their hearts are breaking about it. and it's yet another bad situation. this was very different than the george floyd situation, and the reasons why it's different will come into play. we heard people say it never should have escalated to this point. the escalation seemed to happen when the police arrested this

individual, who was passed out drunk in line at the wendy's. that is a problem. driving a vehicle while drunk is a problem. if it is legal to arrest someone for drunk driving of that nature, that is not the fault of the police. if they shouldn't be arresting someone who is drunk driving or operating a vehicle, that does kill people. that would be a separate issue. but the escalation seemed to be, at that point, where there was a very strong resistance to arrest. i've heard people say that this individual was unarmed. he did take hold of a taser. what's interesting about that is the police usually say that's not a deadly weapon, and defense attorneys say it is a deadly weapon. now you've seen people switch sides here. where the police are saying he had a deadly weapon that he had taken, and here defense attorney saying, "it's not really deadly weapon, nothing to be worried about," and whatnot. these are very serious issues and the passions of the moment are not the best way to litigate some of these very difficult times when we are talking about people's lives being in the balance. and also the much bigger issues

with police handling nationwide. >> harris: you know, it's also kind of dividing all of us, if you will, as we watch this video, marie harf. the fact that this is happening at this time. i don't know if it is really a true division. if people think about it, you would assume at this point -- and i think it's safe to say assume -- that police department's are doubling down on their training on these issues. how to de-escalate and all of that. the timing of this is spectacularly awful. a death at any time is heartbreaking. the timing of this, when our nation is such a tender box emotionally, as mollie is talking about, we want to see clear eyed our way forward and see change. this makes that difficult, doesn't it? >> marie: well, this is why the conversation by police reform is so important. yes, he had been drunk driving, and yes, he resisted arrest. the punishment for either of those crimes is not death, under the law. so, that is why the police

reform issues are actually so important, because they are most needed in these gray areas. in these more complicated situations. you shouldn't have to be taught not to hold your knee on the neck of someone for almost 9 minutes until they die, but these are the kinds of escalatory situations that need reforms and better training, and changes to the way we do policing this country, because that is where it often gets so complicated, and where it's the heat of the moment. yes, he took a taser, but is it a deadly weapon? that's why this conversation is so important, because there are a lot of clear-cut cases like george floyd's, but every day not caught on camera there are complicated cases like this one. and you should not be shot in the back for sleeping in your car drunk, or for resisting arrest. that is just not how we administer justice for those kinds of crimes in this country. one final point, harris, you can imagine a scenario where we have

a different form of community policing. they find him drunk in the car, and they sent someone to help them get home and not arrest him. that is a different scenario that ends much less tragically. that's what we should aim for here. >> harris: melissa, before we can scoot to the next topic, which is police reform, which i want to get to, as mollie pointed out, if you drove wherever you drove to india fell asleep, that is still a crime. they still have to have some way to deal with somebody you might have committed a crime. i mean, i hear you say, drive them home. that might've happened like in college. but i don't know if that happens with adults with all these people around waiting in the line. you know what i mean? they've got have a way to arrest somebody and not have it escalate to the point where that person is dead. no matter what that person may or may not have done, what is the preamble to all that we saw on videotape? what should they do? >> melissa: i think what is surprising to me about all of these situations, as you look at them, as ac people of color in

positions of power. i'm surprised that hasn't made a bigger difference. that, when you look at the mayor of atlanta, where the chief of police in minneapolis, or the chief of police in seattle, and you have people of color, you have women involved, and it breaks down that original stereotype of the white male cop who is the aggressor. but it seems like it hasn't made a difference. i don't know why. i mean, i don't know why, if your boss is someone of color, that you then -- to have sensitivity to say people believe are racist or doing inappropriate things? i mean, i just -- i don't understand how that is not translating to either better community relations, more trust, or better practices. i don't say that in a provocative way. really saying that is a question. i would think that would have been a helpful solution, but it seems like we are no better off.

i would love if somebody could explain that to me. i would think that if you are at the top and setting the tone in setting the rules, that you wouldn't see what we've been calling systemic racism. >> harris: it makes me wonder whether those are the first things that black leaders do when they get into those positions, where they're dealing with an avalanche of other problems. there's no way to know, it's individual across the country, but it's an excellent question. senate republicans are planning to unveil their police reform proposal this wednesday. pressure, as you may know, is mounting on washington to act. it comes after house democrats released their bill last week. g.o.p. senator tim scott, who is leading the effort, since there are still some areas which need to be worked out before anything has a shot of becoming watch. >> from the republican perspective, it sends a signal that qualified immunity is off the table. they see that as a poison pill on our side, the desertification of officers.

except the law enforcement unions say that the poison pill. so we have to find a path that helps us. if we don't do it right, we will have the same situation where there is no law. >> harris: congresswoman karen bass, spearheading the democrat efforts, told our own chris wallace she is optimistic a deal can be released to migration and she is receiving positive feedback. >> one of the same vacant parts as national standing, training, and accreditation. we are finding a lot of support from police officers. yesterday adam hour-long meeting with the fraternal order of police. they are supportive of the idea of national standards and significant training. you should be accredited to be a police officer. any profession that allows you to use lethal force, they should be very significant training. >> harris: you know, chris, i want to bring back the question that melissa francis just asked about black leadership right n

now. this is a priority. perhaps always has been, but the focus is different. from your interviews this weekend, what do you think has been the tipping point? because there currently is one. >> chris: in terms of karen bass, that was the first time i ever talk to her, she's a very impressive woman. she was the first black woman to be the speaker of the house in the california assembly. she has been in congress for i think 6-8 years. she is the chair of the congressional black caucus, and i think she is the best hope that there will be a deal here. because she is somebody who clearly wants to make a deal. i asked her at one point, "there's going to be differences, you have to compromise to get this to a republican senate and get the president to sign it." and she said, "i fully understand that." although she did say that our red lines where they won't compromise. that's the optimistic point. the more realistic, unfortunately, point is that we have seen these terrible events

before, with school shootings and demands for some gun control measures. nothing happens. you know, you hope this time it'll be different, you hope that they'll be able to get together. there are a lot of points on which they seem to agree. there are some on which they disagree. i am not at all sure that the republicans will go along for a national ban on choke holds or know i should knock warrants. you heard tim scott say they won't go for a lifting of immunity for police officers. the devil is in making the sausage, and it will be tough. i will say karen bass is pretty impressive, and tim scott, the lead person from the republicans in the senate, and the only black republican senator, i think they are to people of goodwill. if they can get together, maybe they can bring everybody else on board. >> harris: look, you know, mollie, it'll take people like south carolina representative, the third most important in the house, james clyburn, to see

what he's been saying. note to defending the police, can we do those areas back even if they don't do a ban on choke hold, he is still coming to the table. >> mollie: i want to quickly address this issue black leadership in police departments and other positions of authority. i think we haven't been doing a very good job of just being factual about what's happening in the country. we have a lot of emotion. but it's true that we have had great strides being made in terms of black people being in charge, police agencies of making higher office, and what not. this is a good and wonderful thing. it is also true that there are hundreds of millions of interactions between the police and civilians each year, hundreds of millions. we are very focused on those few that don't just go south but way south. that is a good thing to be focused on. if we really care about improving these interactions in general, i think one thing that could help is less criminalization of everything. a lot of times people are interacting with the police because we have so many laws

that deal with people -- people can find themselves in violation of so many laws, and people who are most vulnerable are going to find themselves receiving police scrutiny. so there are many opportunities we have, but this idea that the federal government can handle this, i worry that it's a way to get away from people truly taking responsibility. police enforcement, there is nothing more -- law enforcement, there is nothing more local than that. local communities need to take responsibility. you can get an easy out by having the feds come up with some blunt instrument that applies to everybody, but it probably won't fix the problem if local communities aren't more responsive to local concerns. >> harris: all right. mollie hemingway, welcome to the show for the first time pretty good have you. we will scoot. meanwhile, the growing debate among democrats to defund the police in the wake of nationwide protests. what party leaders are saying now. ♪ ♪ [ siren ] give me your hand! i can save you...

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>> melissa: minnesota congresswoman ilhan omar doubling down on her calls to dismantle the minneapolis police department in the wake of george floyd's death, saying the department in its current state cannot be reformed. >> a new way forward can't be put in place if we have a department that is having a crisis of credibility, if we have a department that is led by a chief for racism. if they haven't solved half of the homicides. you can't really reform a department that is rotten to the root. what you can do is rebuild. >> melissa: omar's remarks coming amid growing calls on the left to defund the police, but top democrats pushing back.

>> i will simply say, as i have always said, nobody is going to defund the police. we can restructure the police forces. restructure, reimagine policing. that is what we are going to do. >> melissa: mollie, it strikes me, you have some democrats saying, "no, we don't really mean defend or dismantle the police permit. we mean reform it from the ground up." and they have a relatively big group of other speaking of saying, "no, that's exactly what we mean." like ilhan omar, saying it's her onto the core, and we need to get rid of it. if this is another issue that maybe rob's joe biden of enthusiasm? because that of most vocal feeling he's not going far enough. >> mollie: you are right that some people say they may not just defund the police but abolish the police.

other people say, "we just mean you should move the money around more creatively, there are a lot of community concerns," and whatnot. rhetorically it's pretty much a disaster issue. 80% of americans do not support defending the police, and having that kind of extreme position is why you are seeing so many democrats saying, "we don't actually mean this, we don't support this idea." the fact is police are one of the more popular institutions in the united states. you wouldn't know that from a lot of the media coverage right now, but people have overwhelming confidence in the police and the military, far higher than they do, say, the press or congress. a lot of people have many hundreds of millions of interactions with the police. they've really favorable ideas about those interactions and the lives saved and the order and peace the police provide. >> melissa: chris, i heard you talking about this earlier on other shows, but it strikes me that this issue is a little bit like how bill de blasio in

new york city approaches politics. where he ends up with anybody hating his solution, on the left in the right. once i think she hasn't gone far enough, the other side thinks he's gone too far. it strikes me as this is a similar type of issue for the democrats caught in the middle, that you are going to have people on both sides who do not like the way you handled the problem. it's almost a no-win. >> chris: well, i would say a couple things about it. first of all, defending the police is a terrible idea, and in jake tapper's interview with ilhan omar where he asked her what that looks like, what is it mean on a practical level, she couldn't answer it. because all the talk about, "well, we are going to change it to the core, it's going to look different," but when you get to who is going to answer the 911 calls and how they will protect your neighborhood, they really can't talk about it. the other point i would make it, however, i think there is an overreaction to defending the police. the fact is that ilhan omar is supporting it, she's got four votes in the house.

the squad. you hear the minneapolis city council supporting it, that is a little bit more significant. but the fact is that democratic leader after democratic leader, whether it's nancy pelosi or chuck schumer or james clyburn or karen bass, the head of the congressional black caucus, or joe biden, they all say that they are against defending the police. while i understand the original idea came from some people on the left, i think that right now it is becoming a republican talking point because they want to build up the idea of defunding the police to try and show the democrats as out of the mainstream. the vast majority of democrats and the entire leadership of the democratic party, both in congress and also joe biden, who is the almost certain nominee of the party, are all against it. when they say they are against defunding the police, they are against defunding the police. >> melissa: of course, chris, but every single person he mentioned there operates on a

national level. what they are really looking at doing, and have the power to do it, is on the local level. we are seeing it happen in places like seattle. marie, i will toss it to you. i disagree with chris, we are seeing these sort of things come to fruition on the local level where it can happen. he conceded the point on minneapolis, but the mayor's going along with out there. in seattle. they don't police to take over that zone, and as far as being a republican talking point, you don't have to talk when you're putting up the video and see what's going on in seattle. how do you respond to that? >> marie: they aren't defunding the police in seattle, melissa. there is a question about this autonomous zone, and the police have been in that zone recently, negotiating with the local folks there about how to come back in. i actually agree with chris, here, and do think that the defund the police argument on the right, they want to build it up. it's not a good slogan, it sounds really bad.

it's not what an overwhelming majority of democrats at the national, state, or local levels are arguing for. it's a good talking point, but you are going to see a democratic led house hopefully come together with a republican led senate in the coming days to pass common sense police reform. that is not defunding the police, that is quite a different thing that hopefully will come out of congress. when you look at polling like mollie mention, it's changing quite drastically in our country today. it doesn't change the issues, but it's changing an overwhelming percentage of americans want change. they don't want to defund, but they want change. that is significant. >> melissa: president trump campaign touting record demand for his rally in tulsa, oklahoma, this saturday. his first such event after months of coronavirus lockdown. tulsa's top health official urging the campaign to postpone the event over health concerns. should they reconsider the

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>> harris: president trump is gearing up to resume his signature campaign rallies this saturday in tulsa, oklahoma. the president tweeted that nearly a million people have requested tickets for the event. the venue holds about 19,000. rnc chairwoman ronna mcdaniel today touted those numbers, as well as poll numbers showing presumptive democratic nominee joe biden doing well against the president. watch. >> the enthusiasm for this president is through the roof. it is higher than we've ever seen. we saw yesterday for his birthday when he raised $14 million online. now we are seeing it with this rally. that is being underrepresented in these polls. >> harris: however, reuters is reporting oklahoma saw a record

spike in coronavirus cases over the past several weeks, and tells us top health officials is not urging the campaign to postpone the rally. saying this. "i am concerned about our ability to protect anyone who attends a large indoor event, and i'm also concerned about our ability to enjoy the president stays safe, as well." chris wallace, i come to you on this. these events are not going to be small. just if we look at how they have been in the past. even with social distancing. is this a problem for the white house? >> chris: well, there are two points i want to make here, and that you had in your intro. in terms of enthusiasm, and he saw it with the huge fund-raising and deceit with 800,000 people trying to get into this rally, the president does in fact have a huge advantage when it comes to enthusiasm over joe biden. in a "washington post" poll over the weekend, 53% of trump supporter said they were very enthusiastic about voting for the president. only 24%, less than half as many

biden supporters, said they were enthusiastic about voting for joe biden. the president clearly has an advantage there. now we get to the rally. it's going to be in an indoor arena, 19,000 people. i'm sure it'll be filled to the rafters, because the president does have enthusiastic support. >> harris: yes, he does. >> chris: every health official i've heard from his putting up a huge red flag about this. you've got the top health official in tulsa saying that we can't protect people. you know that it's dangerous, because the campaign of the people in tulsa are saying anybody who goes in is going to have to sign a waiver that they can't sue if they get covid. on sunday, yesterday, on "fox news sunday," we had dr. bruce holster home, one of the top of top epidemiologists of the university of minnesota, one of the top experts in the country, he said, "i would not allow a member of my family go to an event like that. we have 20,000 people in a close space, and even without masks, shouting, which is a way to

protect the virus." i just don't understand it. i understand the president wanting to get out. >> harris: i want to get to molly on this. here's my question for you, mollie. >> chris: i would just say this -- can i just say this quickly? harris, it's one thing to social distance, to have masks on, to be in not big groups. it's a different thing to have 20,000 people in a closed arena, most of them shouting without masks. >> harris: and we compare that with the millions of people that we've seen protesting, calling for the change that so desperately needed in this country on a whole host of levels, mollie. it gets complicated. i phrased my question to chris, we didn't get to it, but is this a problem to the white house? i get the campaign is similar from the white house, but if you have a situation where the president would be exposed, that is the white house.

>> mollie: the way i look at this as we had weeks upon weeks of large massive protests in the cities of the country, that they can be viewed in some ways is antilock down protests in addition to their political ai aims. we've had pretty much everybody in the media and all public health officials being like, "that's fine." they lost their credibility in doing that if they want to keep events like this from happening. you can say, "oh, people won't wear masks, it's indoors," but i don't think those arguments are as persuasive to people still being subjected to lockdowns or shutdowns in many states. they can't go to funerals of their loved ones, their kids can't play on playgrounds, but they are looking around and just seeing tens of thousands of people day after day in cities across the country with public health officials cheering it on. again, there has been a complete loss of credibility when it comes to our government officials, our public health officials, and our media and terms of how they treat gatherings of people based on whether they share the political

motivation of the people involved. >> harris: marie, i want to give a chance to respond to that. >> chris: first of all, a lot of public health officials are very much opposed to the protests. they were a bad idea in terms of public health. and, we don't know the impact they are going to have, because incubation period back his two weeks. let's wait and see. there are 14 states -- >> melissa: nobodies being forced to do any of this. >> chris: this is something to be very concerned about. stu and you know -- i wanted to say this, we are better than two weeks into this process, so we will start to see what this testing results are like. if people actually get tested, if they choose to do that. marie? >> marie: i'm sorry, harris, i didn't mean to step on your toes there. spew when you're fine. >> marie: the president wants to pretend like coronavirus is no longer a threat. we see in numerous states, including oklahoma, the numbers are rising. they've had the highest rates of infection over the past several days.

oklahoma, arizona, south carolina. the president wants to pretend like we won this battle, and we haven't. this is his demonstration of that. if people come away from this rally sick, when you have health officials pleading with him not to have this rally, it is indicative of the fact that he wants to move on. he wants to talk about anything else, and unfortunately the virus has a mind of its own. and we can't. >> harris: i'm going to move on myself. after the cancellations of "cops" and "live pd," another television cop to get the ax. weather canceled culture folks are going to fire. happen every day.

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publishing a piece headlined "sorry, olivia benson is canceled, too." referring to nypd detective asterisk mariska hargitay. that is the character she's played on law and order special victims unit for 21 seasons. this comes after the cancellations of the hit reality shows "cops" and "live pd." here's a quote from the rolling stone piece. "no matter how much you love olivia benson, you have to be willing to grapple with the fact that she plays a major role in perpetuating the idea that cops are inherently trustworthy and heroic, and that many viewers are unable to distinguish between the gossamer fantasy of how justice should be handled and how it actually is. mollie, there are some interesting things in there. first of all, they basically say that viewers are stupid, that if we watch that we are unable to distinguish and that we think all cops are good cops. so you can't watch good cops on tv, because you will be misled

to think that cops are good. what are your thoughts? >> mollie: well, this does show how radical some people in the movement are, despite what some will say. you can also tell how seriously to take a movement by what demands that movement has. this started as, "we must reform the police so men who aren't a threat won't be killed by out-of-control cops." now it's that we can't have these keyword pretenders who wear costumes on television because they make me feel unsafe. it's deeply unserious and is also not just about cops who help people like howe is portrayed in the show, but "paw patrol" has also been canceled. this desire to tear down statues and monuments and speech and culture and history really is the scariest part of the mob we have seen right now. i don't know if we've seen enough push back on. it's very dangerous set to. >> melissa: harris, this specifically, that you want to get away with those cops are police officers who are a positive role model, that is

what is being targeted here and with paw patrol. does that make sense? >> harris: it's unlike anything else i can think of in the way that we live our lives. are we going to vilify every single police officer in our midst across america? and this is a sensitive issue for those of us who are military base, because 19 plus percent of our police force across the country are former military members. are they maligning two groups of people there? and to what avail? if you are blessed enough to have a cell phone in your hand, who are you going to call? 911. and he will be fortunate when the person picks up and send somebody there. i don't understand how you can believe vilify an entire category of folks who are in our society, with a mission, but you want also to depend on those

same people. we have to deal with those, and the system, whatever parts of it are broken. we all know that. particularly people of color. when you hear representative jim clyburn say, "don't defund the police," that's because he knows many of the areas that would be most hurt if we didn't have people we could trust, and also have symbols of that trust, whether it's "paw patrol" or whatever it is -- my kids love it -- but without those positive symbols and that community-making, knitting us altogether, where do you go from there? >> melissa: chris, when you look at fiction in art, are you unable to distinguish what israel and what is for entertainment? what is fiction? it sort of implies -- >> chris: listen, i hate the cancel culture. one of the things i worry about is today they are canceling what you are offended by, tomorrow they will be canceling what you

support. as i understand rolling stone's argument, that we need to take off the air a good cop because she may hide the fact that all cops are bad, it's about the dumbest argument i've ever heard. i'm all for law and order, and olivia benson. >> melissa: chris wallace is that with a brand-new book we will be talking about on the other side of this break. he gripping behind-the-scenes account of the lead up to the u.s. atomic bomb attack on hiroshima. he tells us all about it next. ♪ it's a new day for veterans all across america. mortgage rates have now fallen to all time lows. that's good news for veterans with va loans. that's me. by using your va streamline refi benefit, one call to newday usa can save you $2,000 a year. that's me. there's no income verification, no appraisal, and no out of pocket costs. that's me. put your va home loan benefits to good use. call my team at newday usa.

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>> melissa: chris wallace has a brand-new book out. "countdown 1945: the extraordinary story of the atomic bomb in the hundred 16 days that changed the world." it's avail now, by the way, it's number three on amazon. smoking hot! as we speak, chris, tell us why you decided to focus on this period of time. >> chris: i was looking for it -- you know, the conversation today that we just hadn't made me realize why i love researching and writing 1945 so much. because all we've talked about

today are things that divide us, and there are very important issues that divide us. in 1945, the country was united. we will pulling together a commn europe and the war in the pacific. one of the best examples of that is the manhattan project. fdr started in 1942, there were 125,000 people working, from oak ridge 20c to los alamos new mexico, to hanford washington. none of them broke the secret. it take all my saved top secret until the bomb was dropped on hiroshima. if we had 125,000 people working to bake apple pie, somebody would come out with a tweet tomorrow and say, "this is immoral, it's outrageous, and we need to stop it." in 1945, we were all united in the big common cause. boy, could we use that now.

>> melissa: do you think social media is the problem? we didn't have the internet, we had so much less communication. maybe that's the problem, chris. >> chris: somebody once said, it doesn't help. that is certainly part of it. but i think there was just a sense of unity and common cause and purpose. and this book, i tried to write -- the best review i got, somebody said, "i triei know wht happened but it reads like a fairly." and they put you with trail and dominic truman where he's deciding whether to approve the bomb. in los alamos come whether the gadget will work. the flight crew flying to drop the bomb on hiroshima, and they don't know because it's never been dropped from a plane whether it's going to knock the plan out of the sky. it's a thriller, a page turner. i think it's a pretty good father's day gift, too. >> melissa: sounds wonderful. i can't wait. more "outnumbered" in just a moment. we'll be right back.

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>> melissa: a very happy birthday to marie harf, who by the looks of it is turning 18 today! thank you also to mollie and chris. we'll be back here at noon eastern tomorrow. now, here's harris. ♪ >> harris: we are awaiting a white house press briefing, and ahead of that we will have the opportunity to hear from counselor to the president kellyanne conway. she'll be with me live moments from now. we are garnering all the reaction expected to the fatal police shooting in atlanta. a lot happening this hour. some of it happening there. as i mentioned, the white house will be with me, as well. this is "outnumbered overtime." i'm harris faulkner. crowds of protesters are converging on downtown atlanta right now after a white police officer shot and killed a black man during an altercation in a wendy's parking lot on friday. that officer f